The REAL solution for sound film not being made an

[Matt Pacini]

Sound film has gone the way of the Dodo.
Kodak is not going to make it again, and I'm sure Fuji isn't going to either.

What someone needs to do, is make Super 8 sound film, but instead of a little, tiny analog mag tape stripe down the side, devise a way to record digitally onto the film.

You can't record quality analog on such a slow, thin peice of mag, so it would only make sense to do it digitally.
Of course, this would be way beyond my capabilities, and you would also need some sort of reader to convert it too, but wouldn't it be cool?
Even cooler if it were like 3 channel, so you could record multiple dialog channels at once, or one dialog channel, and stereo ambience, etc.,

Matt Pacini

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[Jean Poirier]

Are you thinking about a double system standard or a kind of printing process where the digital information is somewhat coded between the perforations (like Dolby Digital)?


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[MovieStuff]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Courier, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Matt Pacini:

You can't record quality analog on such a slow, thin peice of mag
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's funny. MOST people would say that very thing about super 8 in general, you know?

"You can't record a quality image on such a slow, tiny piece of emmulsion!"

Therefore, "quality" is a relative thing. As someone that used a ton of sound film long before they discontinued it, I can tell you that it's great for voice and nothing could be simpler. The REAL problem with sound stripe film is that most cameras don't have manual audio gain, and that truly sucks. But as far as using sound film for aquisition of field audio for voice, it sounds just terrific. I even recorded some music with my old Elmo 1012 and it sounded fine. I still have footage of my friend playing a Fender Rhodes that has zero audible wow in it and I think that says a lot for such a tiny medium.

I think your idea about the digital thing would be a great mod for a sound stripe camera but I'd use it "as is" again in a heartbeat if it was available.

Roger

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Roger Evans
MovieStuff
http://www.afterimagephoto.tv/moviestuff.html

[Matt Pacini]

Yeah, digital encoding between the sprockets.

Or even optical would be cool. That way, there would be no extra thickness factor at all.
Maybe just analog, like Roger said, but optical instead of mag track.
What do dyou think, Roger?
Can you make an optical sound mod?
(Wow, that's a tall request)

Hey, I'm not against sound film, I just know that Kodak isn't going to do it anymore, that's all. I have no hope, because it's been taken out of use on all film formats. (for shooting).

Matt Pacini

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[#Pedro]

Only some technical facts concernig sound stripe (at 24 fps):
frequency response: 60 Hz....12,5 kHz
dynamic range: about 50 dB

Most mikes only go to 10 kHz,
most consumer cassette tapes go to under 10 kHz,
Normal VHS sound track can be compared with mini cassette tapes in answering machines... and people are satisfyed.
And, btw, what?s about the freq response of your ears? Are you really 16 year old boys who achieve more than 16 kHz?

As Roger stated, GREAT sound is possible with this sound stripe. BUT, the analouge aspects must be considered. Manual gain is a must, setting the gain close to 0 dB to get the full dynamic range is another must.
And the recording conditions often infuence the result much more than the registration method.

Pedro

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[Matt Pacini]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Courier, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by #Pedro:
"Most mikes only go to 10 kHz,
most consumer cassette tapes go to under 10 kHz,
Normal VHS sound track can be compared with mini cassette tapes in answering machines..."
Pedro

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I totally disagree.
I've never seen, much less used a Mic that didn't go sugnificantly over 10K, and I use Radio Shack PZM mics!!!
Audio on a VHS machine is not fantastic, but come on... mini cassette answering machine tapes sound like someone in the next room talking into a pillow.
Be serious, some newbies on this board might actually think you're not joking around!

Matt Pacini

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[MovieStuff]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Courier, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Matt Pacini:
I totally disagree.
mini cassette answering machine tapes sound like someone in the next room talking into a pillow.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmmmm. I haven't found that to be the case at all. In fact, a buddy of mine has a small dictation recorder I modified for manual gain and he uses it all the time for location voice for long shots with a lapel mic and it works great. Hi just slips it in the persons pocket or clips it on like a wireless mic. He uses it for industrials where the plant causes too much interference in typical wireless mics or places like NASA where they won't allow wireless mics in certain areas. In fact, I've found the audio to be so good that I am using it as the basis for a prototype location recorder for super 8 that would incorporate a beep tone and auto start with the camera. I'll let you try it when it's finished. I think you'll be surprised. No XLR inputs but I think they're over rated and a pain in the ass, anyway.

I know.... 'HERETIC!'

Roger

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Roger Evans
MovieStuff
http://www.afterimagephoto.tv/moviestuff.html

[8th Man]

HERITIC!
Actually I was wondering if anyone has ever tried that German cd player that stayes in sync with the sprocket holes of a projector. S8 or 16 or whatever.
It seems to me that if it works, that would be the coolest thing around.
Has this been discussed before?
Many of us are already playing around with cutting with NLE's and such, but I feel S8 is meant to be projected and it would be nice to do a match cut of the print and burn a cd of the soundtrack and play them in sync. Big sound from you stereo compleat with music, dialogue, and sfx along with a projected image is about as good as I can imagine. Has this come up before? Does anyone own one of these things?

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PRM

[Kurt]

Hello!

I don't have one of the sync CD players you're talking about, but I came very close to buying one last year. I've seen the thing in action and it is pretty impressive. The only thing that kept me from buying it was the fact that it still won't help me get my films shown at festivals. It would be a different story if the system were to develop into a standard and all of the Super 8 festivals had one set up, but I can't imagine that happening. If you're the type who travels around to show films and don't mind bringing your own projector I would definately recommend the the CD sync player.

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[8th Man]

Can you imagine how great it would be if festivals did have this as a standard? I would think a lot of people would really go for this. I'd been thinking of getting sound striping done but this could be the better option. And i think I would be the type to carry the cd player around with me too!

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PRM